first comments on draft I-band paper

From: Greg Aldering (aldering@panisse.lbl.gov)
Date: Mon Jan 05 2004 - 02:02:35 PST

  • Next message: Serena Nobili: "Re: first comments on draft I-band paper"

    Hi Serena,

    I found your draft paper on the I-band Hubble diagram quite
    interesting. It was generally quite easy to read and understand. I do
    have some more extensive commments which I will send along as soon as I
    can, but let me mention the main points regarding the analysis which
    are of interest to me based on my understanding of the paper so far.

    It is probably fair to say that in this paper we have a difficult time
    drawing conclusions with the high-redshift data because larger
    uncertainties have been assigned in this analysis compared to the Riess
    analysis. It is interesting to see how this arises. It seems that the
    main components are that a large statistical error is assigned to 99Q,
    and no stretch correction is applied in the high-z analysis so a large
    intrinsic dispersion applies.

    Now, the large uncertainty for 99Q arises from the fact that you have
    added a "systematic" error because you believe that the statistical
    error is underestimated due to the limited number of data points.
    However, by taking the systematic error as the range from fits with
    delta_chi^2 < 3 you are more than double-counting the statistical error
    itself. delta_chi^2 includes fits that are at 1.7 sigma, so you have
    included this statistical part and called it a systematic. In
    particular, this blows-up the uncertainty on 99Q quite a bit. While
    you may be correct in worrying about the reported statistical errors
    for 2000fr and 1999ff, which have fewer points, I don't think that we
    want to claim that 99Q's uncertainty has to be as large as the one that
    you have quoted because we don't believe the fitted errors.

    Instead, it seems that you need to Monte-Carlo the data points and see
    whether the observed scatter is larger than the expected statistical
    scatter. Even if it is, you still have to remove the statistical part
    of the scatter before assigning a systematic error. I bet you will find
    that 99Q is good to about 0.1 mag. If my guess is right, this may allow
    for stronger constraints in this paper.

    Next, you decided to not stretch-correct, so the intrinsic scatter is
    larger. This is because you don't seem to have a stretch for 99Q.
    However, Riess published the B-I colors for 99Q, from which you might
    be able to constrain the stretch well enough so that the error in using
    it still leads to a net gain for the overall sample. Note also that at
    least the HST R and I data for 99Q are public and Riess says this SN
    has no host. So, we can certainly measure a lightcurve from that.

    On a related theme, in the past we have argued that it is always better
    to stretch correct even if the result is noisier because this
    eliminates a systematic trend in the data - you seem to make the
    opposite arguement here.

    Because Riess has made strong claims using just 99Q, I believe it is
    incumbent on us to try to squeeze all we can out of the available
    data. This is also true because we promised the TAC's that we could do
    so much with this NIR data. If people can see that we have tried to do
    this, it will make the paper much stronger. Conversely, it would be bad
    for it to appear that we are just inflating the uncertainties to
    undermine Riess (not that we are, but then sometimes people don't read
    as carefully as they should). This further reinforces the need to
    take another look at the uncertainties which have been assigned in
    your paper.

    Finally (for now), I believe it is possible that the CT data are offset
    from the CfA data. Examining figure 10, it appears by eye that the
    offset could be as much as 0.10 mag. If this is confirmed it would have
    a big effect on this paper (for the better). Since you have the data in
    hand, could you examine the mean, and error in the mean, for CT and CfA
    separately? It would also be interesting to test CT versus CfA/Jha and
    CfA/Riess, as well as CfA with the two different filters that you said
    were used. This could help explain why I-band has more scatter than
    other optical and NIR bands.

    I would be happy to further discuss these and other points with you.
    Right now I'm just trying to meet the deadline imposed by the Exec,
    so have had to be rather brief. As I mentioned, I will also send
    some more specific comments on the text and figures, most of which
    should be rather straightforward.

    All the best in the New Year,

    Greg



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Mon Jan 05 2004 - 02:02:36 PST