Comments on Version 6 of the EW paper - Part 2

From: Chris Lidman (clidman@eso.org)
Date: Fri Nov 07 2003 - 12:03:28 PST

  • Next message: Chris Lidman: "Re: EW paper draft (v 6.1)"

    Hi Gaston,
      This took me a day or two longer than I expected. Sorry for the
    delay.

      It will be important for others to comment on the paper as well. I
    will send them a reminder.

    Abstract
    ========

    SNe -> supernovae (Although obvious to the expert reader, this acronym
    has
    not yet been defined. In the abstract, I think you should spell it out.)

    I have the overall impression that the abstract does not accurately
    reflect what you have found. The abstract needs to be precise.

    You highlight the fact that one of the indicators can be used as a
    secondary indicator. I think you should highlight the fact that it can
    be used as a primary indicator, and, as I mentioned in my previous
    e-mail, the trend between Delta-m15 corrected magnitude and alpha(2+3)
    (bottom of figure 12) is marginal. It becomes even less marginal if
    one removes 91T. I think you should show this plot, but I do not think
    we can make a strong claim.

    We have not demonstrated the fact that we no longer need to do
    time-consuming photometry. You have to ask your self the following
    questions,

    Can we use just the spectra without photometry? The answer is obviously
    no.

    Can we use the spectra and one photometric point in one filter? The
    answer
    is "We don't know". In principle this might work in the following way

    i) use the spectra to work out the epoch and hence the date of maximum

    ii) use the spectra to measure alpha(2+3) to determine the light curve
    shape.

    iii) use i) and ii) to determine the peak magnitude

    Even if this might work, it has not been shown to work, so I do not
    think we can state in the abstract that time-consuming photometry is
    no longer needed. Additionally, we usually like an additional
    photometric
    point in a second filter to check for reddening.

    Perhaps you could consider the following.

    "We define a new set of empirical quantities to characterize the time
    evolution of type Ia supernovae spectra and we search for correlations
    between these quantities and the magnitude at maximum B-band
    light. We present several of the best correlations and we show that
    they are dominated by the uncertainties in the distances to the host
    galaxies. Future upcoming surveys for large numbers of type Ia
    supernovae
    in the Hubble flow have the potential to reduce these uncertainties and,
    thus, to sharpen the standard candle nature of type Ia supernovae."

    Or something similar.

    Introduction
    ============

    Paragraph 1.

    "the tool" -> "a tool" (the "the" give the impression that spectra are
    the
    "best" tool.

    Paragraph 2.

    "attempts" - You should choose another word. The work of Peter and
    David were more than "attempts". A better word is "pioneering."

    Paragraph 3.

    I think that you should mention some of the "weirdos" which do not fall
    into
    the Branch normal, 91bg and 91T subclasses. Some of the wierdos include
    00cx,
    02cx and 02ic.

    Paragraph 4.

    The order of the list should be changed and the contents revised.

    a) Provide empirically derived quantities of SN Ia spectra as a
    function of epoch.

    b) As written

    c) As written

    The next sentence "This work ..." is superfluous and can be removed.

    Data Description
    ================

    2nd paragraph

    redshift values (z) -> redshifts

    Presumably the tilting of the spectra occurred before the SN spectra
    were shifted to the rest frame. In the text the tilting is mentioned
    after
    the shifting. These two sentences should be swapped.

    3rd paragraph

    'value of z from" -> redshifts in

    Table 1
    =======

    I don't think I've heard of a heliocentric redshift. Usually, there is

    z - in which case, it is "Earth" centric.
    z_CMB - which is corrected for our motion relative to the CMB

    You would use the former to shift spectra to the rest frame and
    you would use the latter when estimating the distance from the linear
    Hubble relation.

    S: - does this means spiral? Is this a standard astronomical
    classification.

    NED - an undefined acronym. If you used NED, you probably need to
    acknowledge that you used it.

    Section 3.2 Equivalent Widths
    =============================

    Last paragraph. EW -> the EW

    Section 3.3 Systematic effects.
    ===============================

    First sentence. The phrase "on sliding windows" is not precise. How much
    were
    the windows allowed to slide?

    Section 4. Spectral Evolution
    =============================

    2nd paragraph

    Drop "even including peculiar SNe". Peculiar is a relative term.

    Last paragraph

    I do not understand the sentence that starts with "Epochs were
    considered ..."

    Section 4.1 FeII
    ================

    1st paragraph.

    "The overall increase ..." can be rewritten to read "The overall
    increase in
    the EW is mainly due to the rise of the emission peaks relative to the
    toughs between them.

    It might be worth to have a paragraph explaining the physical reasons
    why 91T like SNe have smaller EWs that Branch normal SNe. Perhaps Peter
    Nugent can help you here.

    3rd paragraph

    "is fewer data" -> "are fewer data"

    Table 4 and 5
    =============

    Why can't Delta EW (last column) be estimates when n =1 (second last
    column),
    i.e. when you have one object.

    Section 5.1.2 "MgII 4300" Break
    ===============================

    Paragraph 1

    In the cases -> For

    given -> Used

    Section 5.1.3 EW around maximum light
    ====================================

    1st paragraph

    You have probably done this, but did you try to correlate Delta EW as
    is listed in table 4 with absolute magnitude over the interval -5 to
    +5 days around maximum light for individual SNe and for the following
    combination of features

    4 alone
    4+8
    4+8+6+7
    4+8+2+6+7

    The paper does not explicitly mention which correlations you tried. This
    does
    not need to be written in the paper, but it would certainly be worth
    including
    this in your thesis or a some other report. I think that the
    collaboration
    would be very interested in knowing which correlations you tried.

    4th paragraph

    Total exposure time of 4 hours => 2 hours each? You could try this on
    Beethoven directly. The spectrum of Beethoven was two hours. What is the
    uncertainty of EW(2+3) for the Beethoven spectrum. There are not going
    to be
    many type Ias at z=0.5 that have a spectrum as good as the one of
    Beethoven.

    Is an uncertainty of 0.25 magnitudes acceptable? Probably not. The
    uncertainty in using the light curve method is ~0.17 magnitudes.

    Section 6. Conclusion
    =====================

    This is much better. It still lacks a bit of punch, but this can be
    improved later.

    Paragraph 2.

    "including peculiar" -> including both 91T-like and 91bg-like.

    Peculiar is a relative term. It may be that we discover that 91T and
    91bg are just at the extremes of a continuous range.

    Paragraph 4.

    "to luminosity" -> with luminosity

    Although t_br can be used in principle with SNe as far as z=1, the
    observations are not feasible with current the generation of
    large telescopes.

    Paragraph 5.

    Drop "... and with the use of a lower amount of observing time."

    Paragraph 6.

    I don't like the last sentence. To assess evolutionary effects one
    needs very large, well controlled samples at both low and high redshifts
    I'd suggest that you drop the last sentence and join the first
    sentence to the end of paragraph 5.

    Other General Comments
    ======================

    In figures 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, it would be useful to list the feature
    numbers as well as the mnemonic names.

    Comments sent on Monday (part 1)
    ================================

    I have modified the last point.

    Distance indicators.
    ====================

    Page 9.

    Patat et al. I think that this reference is outdated. Please check the
    more recent work of Freedman et al. You will find that SBF and Cephied
    distances are in much better agreement.

    Averaging the distance estimates of Saha et al. and Freedman et al for
    1981B, 1989B and 1990N is bad. You should use one or the other, and I
    would suggest that you use just the Freedman et al. estimates for
    these 3 SNe. For 91T, you have no choice, you have to use Saha et
    al. It is important to stress, as you do in the text, that the Saha et
    al. derive larger distances and hence infer SNe Ia to be brighter than
    Freedman et al. This is very interesting, because 91T sticks above
    the best fits in figures 11 and 12.

    Primary versus Secondary Calibrators
    ====================================

    The argument that alpha(2+3) can be use as a second parameter is not
    convincing. If you remove 91T, whose absolute luminosity may have been
    over-estimated, then a straight line fit is probably equally
    plausible. Even with 91T, the error on the slope in equation 7 is
    0.03. The slope is a 2 sigma result. However, I think that you should
    still show this plot, but I do not think that the result is
    significant enough to stake a claim.

    The probability argument in the sentence that follows equation 7
    should be removed. I do not think that you understand the errors
    (mostly from the distance) to make this sort of comparison.

    The correlation between alpha(2+3) and absolute magnitude is better
    than the correlation between Delta_m15 and absolute magnitude. Hence
    we should be arguing that alpha(2+3) is a better primary calibrator.

    Why is the scatter in Delta_m15 and absolute magnitude (0.33
    magnitudes) so much worse that what has been derived before. This
    needs to be understood. If it is due to distance errors, then that is
    OK,
    but why is the alpha(2+3) correlation so good.



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