Re: Bessel transmission functions

From: Alex Kim (agkim@lbl.gov)
Date: Fri Jan 02 2004 - 14:54:52 PST

  • Next message: Alex Conley: "Re: Bessel transmission functions"

    A small addendum to Alex's e-mail. Interestingly enough, if you
    mistakenly assume that the Johnson-Cousins system is energy based AND
    you mistakenly take Bessell's curves to be R, you get the correct
    Johnson-Cousins (count-based) K-correction. So the K-corrections we
    used in the days of yore were "correct"!

    Alex

    Alex Conley wrote:
    > Hello all,
    >
    > I hope you had a pleasant holiday season.
    >
    > We've discovered that the filter transmission functions that we have
    > used in the past for the Bessell filters are slightly incorrect.
    > Basically, the passbands for UBVRI given in Bessell (1990), Table 2, are
    > not what we thought they were, and hence our K-corrections have been
    > slightly incorrect in some of our previous work (including Knop et al.
    > 2003 and possibly the 42 SNe paper). This is NOT a large effect, so
    > nobody should get too worked up about it, but it's worth pointing out.
    >
    > The problem is that the numbers that Bessell gives in his table are
    > actually not R (the dimensionless response, or transmission, or whatever
    > you feel like calling it), but actually lambda * R (suitably
    > renormalized).
    >
    > Note that this is absolutely not the energy vs. counts issue again. It
    > takes a similar form mathematically, but there is no physics in this one,
    > just a question of a paper that isn't as clear as it should have been.
    > If you actually read Bessell (1990) you will find no explanation of what
    > he means by passband, and so it is very natural to (incorrectly) assume
    > that the numbers in Table 2 are just the dimensionless response. In
    > subsequent papers is he much more clear about this issue, and always
    > tabulates lambda*R.
    >
    > This discovery arose when Lifan pointed out a footnote in Jha's thesis
    > that points this out, and references some papers by Suntzeff that have
    > also discussed this issue. I ended up contacting Nick Suntzeff about
    > this, and after a few email exchanges I contacted Mike Bessell directly.
    > He confirms that the numbers in Table 2 of Bessel 1990 are actually
    > lambda*R, and not R. Therefore, the real filter is slightly bluer than we
    > have been using. Fortunately, as I said before, the size of the effect is
    > not large, generally less than 0.02 magnitudes. If you would like to see
    > the size of the effect, take a look at
    >
    > panisse.lbl.gov/~aconley/kdiff.eps
    >
    > This is the old K correction minus the new K correction (the new one using
    > the right form for the Bessell passbands) for a variety of redshifts.
    > The blue lines are rest frame B band, the red lines rest frame V band. The
    > sign of the effect is such that SNe are actually slightly dimmer and
    > redder at higher redshifts than we believed (recall that K-corrections are
    > subtracted from observed magnitudes). At z=0.5, a SNe is about 0.015 mag
    > dimmer and 0.012 mag redder with the correct filter. With extinction
    > correction, these counteract each other to some extent. This makes the
    > Omega_Lambda case a little bit weaker (with extinction correction), but by
    > an amount much smaller than we care about -- so far.
    >
    > So -- how do you figure out if this affects you? Well, take a look at
    > whatever dimensionless filter passband you have been using. If, for the
    > I band it looks something like
    >
    > lambda R
    > 700 0.0
    > 710 0.024
    > 720 0.232
    > 730 0.555
    > 740 0.785
    > 750 0.910
    > 760 0.965
    > 770 0.985
    > 780 0.990
    > 790 0.995
    > 800 1.000
    >
    > etc.
    >
    > you are probably affected. If this is so, you have to decide if the size
    > of the problem is big enough for you to redo whatever you have been using
    > them for.
    >
    > Note that this lambda*R thing does not affect all passband information.
    > For example, as far as I can tell (I would appreciate somebody
    > cross-checking this) the HST filters that synphot provides are simply R,
    > and not lambda*R. I think that the Sloan filters as specified by Fukugita
    > et al. are also R. Some other papers (the Y band of Hillenbrand, the Js,
    > H, Ks of Persson) don't define their terms clearly enough that I can be
    > sure either way.
    >
    > This issue has given me a new appreciation of why the HST folks decided to
    > define their own passband formalism instead of trying to work with the
    > very messy and creakily defined standard filter stuff.
    >
    > Incidentally, the full reference to Bessel 1990:
    >
    > Bessel, M.S. 1990 Pub. A.S.P. 102, 1191.
    >
    > Alex
    >



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