Re: new template - 1999Q. (CORRECTION!)

From: Vitaliy Fadeyev (VAFadeyev@lbl.gov)
Date: Fri Jun 11 2004 - 12:35:48 PDT

  • Next message: Vitaliy Fadeyev: "Re: new template - 1999Q. (ANOTHER CORRECTION!)"

    Hi All,

    In all my previous lightcurve fits for 99Q I made the same mistake of
    specifying
    wrong restframe filters. This was the reason for significant differences
    between
    fits with different spectral templates, and "structured" fitted
    lightcurve noted
    by Greg. The fixed table is shown below.

    Cases are:

    1R - HST only, Rob's template
    1P - HST only, Peter's template
    1S - HST only, Serena's template
    2R - HST and discovery point, Rob's template
    2P - HST and discovery point, Peter's template
    2S - HST and discovery point, Serena's template
    3R - HST and discovery point, tmax fixed to Tonry's, Rob's template
    3P - HST and discovery point, tmax fixed to Tonry's, Peter's template
    3S - HST and discovery point, tmax fixed to Tonry's, Serena's template

    SNMINUIT output table:
    case m_B dm_R m_B_corr dm_B_corr s ds chisq dof m_R kcorr_R kcorr_I tmax dtmax R-I d(R-I) EBV dEBV
    1R 22.93 0.05 23.20 0.11 1.167 0.037 1.89 8 22.08 -0.851 -0.708 2451185.08 1.612 -0.030 0.048 -0.033 0.050
    1P 22.93 0.06 23.18 0.11 1.159 0.037 1.36 8 22.07 -0.854 -0.707 2451185.07 1.577 -0.036 0.047 -0.032 0.049
    1S 22.93 0.06 23.19 0.11 1.158 0.036 1.43 8 22.08 -0.852 -0.707 2451185.31 1.597 -0.031 0.047 -0.035 0.049

    2R 23.09 0.02 23.36 0.08 1.175 0.036 6.67 9 22.24 -0.852 -0.715 2451189.19 1.414 -0.123 0.040 0.066 0.042
    2P 23.09 0.02 23.36 0.08 1.172 0.037 6.24 9 22.23 -0.856 -0.714 2451189.16 1.399 -0.138 0.040 0.076 0.042
    2S 23.09 0.02 23.38 0.08 1.178 0.036 6.27 9 22.24 -0.854 -0.714 2451189.23 1.382 -0.135 0.040 0.076 0.042

    3R 23.12 0.02 23.20 0.05 1.037 0.020 31.97 10 22.26 -0.854 -0.724 2451194.65 0.000 -0.241 0.030 0.181 0.032
    3P 23.12 0.02 23.21 0.05 1.037 0.020 32.33 10 22.26 -0.858 -0.723 2451194.65 0.000 -0.255 0.030 0.190 0.032
    3S 23.13 0.02 23.23 0.06 1.048 0.020 32.32 10 22.27 -0.856 -0.724 2451194.65 0.000 -0.258 0.030 0.197 0.032

    The snminuit plots are here:

    Case Plot
    1R http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTonly.ps
    1P http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTonly_uberPeter.ps
    1S http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTonly_uberSerena.ps
    2R http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTdisc.ps
    2P http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTdisc_uberPeter.ps
    2S http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTdisc_uberSerena.ps
    3R http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTdisc_fixtmax.ps
    3P http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTdisc_fixtmax_uberPeter.ps
    3S http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTdisc_fixtmax_uberSerena.ps

    The different spectral templates give a fairly consistent answer.
    Please note that the errors are somewhat underestimated, since I
    did not include any kind of "systematic" errors for these fits.
    The late-time behaviour of the lightcurve is still in contradiction
    with the Tonry's Tmax value.

    Mea culpa,
    vitaliy

    Greg Aldering wrote:

    >Hi Vitaliy,
    >
    >I looked at the various fits you made for 99qQ with an eye towards
    >understanding why the peak magnitudes change so much (well outside the
    >quoted uncertainties) when the discovery point is added. I figured that
    >the the poorer chi^2 when this point is added were likely caused by this
    >point being fit poorly.
    >
    >However, this discovery point fits just fine! Instead it appears that the
    >new lightcurve parameters from R->B then make the I->V fits worse. In the
    >case of Peter's template, the poor fit is due to a weird drop in the
    >template lightcurve at late times, which completely misses the HST point.
    >
    >Overall, I was struck by the highly structured (not smooth) shape of the
    >templates we are now fitting. The B-band template has a straight - rather
    >than rounded - pre-max face, and the templates are very pointy near
    >maximum (especially in V-band). Serena's V-band template as plotted on
    >these fits appears to have some numerical artifacts near max (the 2nd
    >derivative is discontinuous), and as mentioned above there is a spurious
    >"shelf" at late times in the Peter template.
    >
    >A question for the group then is do all the lightcurve fits we are now
    >performing have these highly-structured template lightcurves? If so, is
    >this structure thought to be real or due to artifacts in the construction
    >of the templates? Perhaps this has more to do with how SNminuit is
    >interpolating the lightcurves?
    >
    >Signed,
    >
    >Curious Greg
    >
    >
    >On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Vitaliy Fadeyev wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >>Dear Serena,
    >>
    >>please find the results below. For comparison, I show the snminuit runs
    >>for Robs' template, new "precise" Peter template (supplied by Rollin),
    >>and the one supplied by you.
    >>
    >>Cases are:
    >>
    >>1R - HST only, Rob's template
    >>1P - HST only, Peter's template
    >>1S - HST only, Serena's template
    >>2R - HST and discovery point, Rob's template
    >>2P - HST and discovery point, Peter's template
    >>2S - HST and discovery point, Serena's template
    >>3R - HST and discovery point, tmax fixed to Tonry's, Rob's template
    >>3P - HST and discovery point, tmax fixed to Tonry's, Peter's template
    >>3S - HST and discovery point, tmax fixed to Tonry's, Serena's template
    >>
    >>SNMINUIT output table:
    >>case m_B dm_R m_B_corr dm_B_corr s ds chisq dof m_R kcorr_R kcorr_I tmax dtmax R-I d(R-I)
    >>
    >>1R 22.82 0.06 23.02 0.16 1.117 0.054 5.29 8 22.06 -0.764 -0.310 2451186.54 1.444 -0.054 0.074
    >>1P 22.36 0.05 22.45 0.13 1.035 0.044 5.74 8 21.66 -0.702 -0.189 2451178.16 1.676 0.005 0.049
    >>1S 22.63 0.04 22.77 0.13 1.074 0.046 4.13 8 22.04 -0.585 -0.297 2451186.90 1.497 0.121 0.061
    >>
    >>2R 23.14 0.02 23.34 0.07 1.119 0.032 9.95 9 22.24 -0.902 -0.419 2451191.83 0.853 -0.188 0.035
    >>2P 23.36 0.02 23.57 0.08 1.119 0.033 13.86 9 22.22 -1.140 -0.538 2451192.44 0.729 -0.414 0.031
    >>2S 23.08 0.02 23.34 0.09 1.162 0.038 14.61 9 22.26 -0.826 -0.484 2451191.26 0.878 -0.115 0.042
    >>
    >>3R 23.22 0.02 23.31 0.06 1.040 0.022 26.92 10 22.23 -0.986 -0.484 2451194.65 0.000 -0.269 0.031
    >>3P 23.41 0.02 23.52 0.05 1.056 0.017 24.92 10 22.22 -1.186 -0.575 2451194.65 0.000 -0.459 0.029
    >>3S 23.20 0.01 23.33 0.05 1.065 0.018 34.39 10 22.25 -0.943 -0.574 2451194.65 0.000 -0.228 0.029
    >>
    >>
    >>The snminuit plots are here:
    >>(case 1R) http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTonly.ps
    >>(case 1P) http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTonly_uberPeter.ps
    >>(case 1S) http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTonly_uberSerena.ps
    >>(case 2R) http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTdisc.ps
    >>(case 2P) http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTdisc_uberPeter.ps
    >>(case 2S) http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTdisc_uberSerena.ps
    >>(case 3R) http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTdisc_fixtmax.ps
    >>(case 3P) http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTdisc_fixtmax_uberPeter.ps
    >>(case 3S) http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~fadeyev/snminuit_sn1999q_HSTdisc_fixtmax_uberSerena.ps
    >>
    >>I should note that cases 1P and 1S took a lot of time to converge.
    >>Cases 3R,3P,3S have fairly large Chi^2 due to the late-time behaviour
    >>being somewhat incompatible with the assumed tmax from Tonry.
    >>
    >>Cheers,
    >>vitaliy
    >>
    >>
    >>Serena Nobili wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>Dear Vitaliy (cc SCPexec),
    >>>
    >>>as you probably know, a new set of spectral template has been produced by
    >>>Peter Nugent so to solve some problems of the I-band paper. I have been
    >>>working to color correct them (see attachment) repeating the analysis done
    >>>in Nobili et al. 2003. I would like to ask you if you could run SNminuit
    >>>to fit the B and V- band lightcurve of 1999Q using the new templates. This
    >>>should close the analysis and maybe give us a better understanding of this
    >>>SN. I hope this will not be too much work for you. Please, let me know if
    >>>you think you don't have the time to work on it right now. Thank you very
    >>>much for your help.
    >>>Cheers,
    >>>
    >>> Serena
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
    >>>www.physto.se/~serena
    >>>Tel +33 1 44 27 75 82
    >>>
    >>>Give free food at:
    >>>http://www.porloschicos.com/
    >>>http://www.thehungersite.com/
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    >

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